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NEWS Major Expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

Discussion in 'DVC News & Discussions' started by Russ, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. Russ

    Russ Staff Member Site Owner

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    Confirming previous rumors, yesterday Walt Disney Parks and Resorts US Inc. filed a permit application with South Florida Water Management District (SFWMD) for "Project 88/Caribbean Beach", located east of Victory Way, south of Buena Vista Drive in Sections 29, 30, 31 & 32, Township 24 South, Range 28 East, within Orange County, Florida. The project consists of modifying existing stormwater management system to serve proposed improvements consisting of constructing building, parking lot and roadway modifications within the 60.58 acre project area:

    upload_2017-1-18_12-5-10.png

    upload_2017-1-18_12-3-24.png

    This includes 7 Proposed Buildings scheduled to begin construction in 2017 and complete work in 2019.

    upload_2017-1-18_11-53-7.png

    UPDATE 2/16:

    In addition to the planned resort expansion, Disney filed plans Tuesday for additional structures in Epcot and DHS which literally seem to point to new structures from the Caribbean Resort filing, creating rumors of a gondola system between Epcot/DHS and CBR (Thanks to forum member @Syndrome for first posting this rumor here, and @danlb_2000 at WDWMagic for first piecing this together).

    Here is an overlay of the two plans with green lines drawn extending perpendicularly from all the structures:


    Gondola.PNG

    Gondola 2.PNG
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  2. yvonneb

    yvonneb Veteran Member

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    Thanks for the move. I did a quick search and didn't find this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2017
  3. Shaden

    Shaden Active Member

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    Can we tell from permits any details about the buildings ???
     
  4. Russ

    Russ Staff Member Site Owner

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    The main structure is a large, multi-wing, possibly multi-story, building pictured in the center at the top. Note, existing buildings and hotel rooms will have to be demoed for the construction of this building. Not a lot of other details, as the main focus of the permit is for water management. A lot of the other buildings are presumably supporting "back stage" buildings to support the expansion (e.g. housekeeping, etc.). Also, it's not clear what the large building at the bottom is (panel C-206). Given the long, narrow parking lot I'd guess it is a back stage building as well, but it is quite large for such a purpose. Anyone else have any thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  5. DVC Mike

    DVC Mike Founder

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    I'm not going to try and guess, as it's not clear. But it's obvious that some big changes are coming to CBR.

    IMG_0348.JPG
     
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  6. Russ

    Russ Staff Member Site Owner

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    From that picture, you can see three existing sections of hotel buildings that will be displaced by Pond E3 (a new retention pond) and Basin E5 (the new main building). Note, the main building is 80,150 sq. ft. in total area. The building by the existing pool in the center is 11,200 sq. ft.
     
  7. Shaden

    Shaden Active Member

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    Wouldn't a 2 story building be out of the ordinary for DVC properties, and generally an inefficient use of that space and investment ?
     
  8. Russ

    Russ Staff Member Site Owner

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    I'm picturing something along the lines of Beach Club Villas:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  9. Shaden

    Shaden Active Member

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    Totally makes sense, but Beach Club Villas are, 4 or 5 stories ? I think you are probably right here regarding BCV 'Like'
     
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  10. Russ

    Russ Staff Member Site Owner

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    Sorry, I misunderstood your meaning -- you were saying "only" 2 story -- also, I meant to state "multi-story" not two-story in my post above. Those details are inferred, not confirmed.
     
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  11. Shaden

    Shaden Active Member

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    Ah yes that explains the confusion:) very interested in how thus shapes up.
     
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  12. wdrl2

    wdrl2 Well-Known Member

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    My guess is that the large building off of Victory Way could become the new Custom House, which serves as the front desk and check-in area for the existing Caribbean Beach Resort. Disney could then have the main entrance for CBR intersect with Victory Way rather than Lake Buena Vista Drive. It could repurpose the existing Custom House as something for the DVC resort. Further, it could make the existing CBR entrance off of Lake Buena Vista Drive so that it serves only the new DVC resort.

    CBR's Sea Breeze Drive currently encircles the entire resort. But the proposed plans show that the new DVC building will, at least, impinge on Sea Breeze Drive, so Disney will have to make some changes to Sea Breeze Drive in order to fit the new DVC building on its plot of land. Personally, I think once the new DVC resort is in place there is no need to have a road that completely encircles the current CBR. Instead, I could see Sea Breeze Drive stopping at the Aruba section and no longer continuing north to where the current Barbados section is located.

    Having separate dedicated entrances for CBR and for the new DVC resort would go a long way in establishing that the DVC resort is not attached to a moderate resort. Furthermore, not having Sea Breeze Drive run through the entire DVC property would also help foster the feel that it and CBR are two separate resorts.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2017
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  13. Babbott

    Babbott Well-Known Member

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    Is it known that the new large building at CBR will be DVC?

    Just to verify, these proposed plans are plans of intent for wetland management. Is it possible that these plans only include buildings that affect current wetlands and that there may be other buildings plans that do not alter wetland management that are not currently filed?

    What is total speculation on my part is that there could be two more similar large multi-story buildings that could have sky bridge access across Victory way and Buena Vista Rd interconnecting a more massive complex and potentially providing walking access to DHS and a yet to be created entrance to world pavilion. Just a thought. The scale would be similar to AKL making it quite a gamble to fill if DVC.
     
  14. Russ

    Russ Staff Member Site Owner

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    There have been no official announcements that this is a DVC. We won't find this out based on public records until Disney files a permit with the Florida Dept of Business & Professional Regulation, however Disney may make an official announcement prior to that. The next public filing should be one or more Notices of Commencements when construction actually begins.

    While the purpose of these plans is solely for water management, any construction surface (building, parking lot, road, support structure for a walkway, etc.) must be in the plans in order to account for the resulting water displaced. Therefore, based on the current plan, it's unlikely any additional buildings or structures will be built, however they could always file additional plans.
     
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  15. AnnaS

    AnnaS Master Member

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    This is all interesting for sure. It will be a little while before we know if it will be DVC for sure and we'll have to wait a lot longer for the final product. Always looking forward to what they have up their sleeve and having choices.
     
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  16. Russ

    Russ Staff Member Site Owner

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    It will be interesting for sure. I think one challenge CBR will have as a DVC property, is people aren't as familiar with CBR as hey are a MK or Epcot Deluxe Resort, which people are generally aware of having taken a boat or monorail past them or having visited a nearby restaurant. CBR is an unknown quantity for many people, so may be a tougher sell - like SSR, although SSR is much larger and still sold out, so this may not be an issue. I'm still guessing they'll have Value Studio accommodations (similar to AKV - Jambo - along with the typical DVC 1-3 bedrooms) to appeal to existing CBR and Moderate Resort goers who might feel priced out of DVC otherwise. That's a huge draw IMO - Sure the points will still cost $176+, but at least they will go further, thus you can buy fewer. I think this is a good hedge for Disney against an eventual recession as well, since this will allow them to maintain the $176+ price tag, just selling smaller units of points.
     
  17. mitnosnhoj

    mitnosnhoj Well-Known Member

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    True. I had never heard of it. I had to look for it on a map.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2017
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  18. AnnaS

    AnnaS Master Member

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    My daughter and I stayed here once about 9 years ago for her school Track and Field competition at the Wide World of Sports Complex (or whatever it's called :rolleyes:). We had a very nice stay and nice location. I wanted to stay at one of the DVC resorts but my daughter wanted to stay in the same resort her "friends" were booked in.
     
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  19. Russ

    Russ Staff Member Site Owner

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    Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's not nice, just less known. I've certainly heard of it (along with all the Value and Moderates), but never been to any of them other than on an occasional DME bus stop. This makes me think CBR is going to draw from a different customer base than the traditional DVC buyer -- which I think is a brilliant strategy for the reasons stated above and to maintain demand for DVC which at some point they are going to price themselves out of customers otherwise. I know I'm in the minority thinking CBR will be a "Moderate" DVC (which translates to predominantly Value Studio accommodations requiring fewer points), but convinced that it makes sense regardless.
     
  20. Lori L

    Lori L Staff Member Administrator

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    I agree, I'm not saying it isn't nice, however, I would argue that it is the least popular among the moderate resorts. Many people prefer the other moderates over this one. We have stayed at the moderates and this would be our least favorite for sure.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2017
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  21. wdrl2

    wdrl2 Well-Known Member

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    Our first on-site stay was at Caribbean Beach back in 1989, so its always held a special attachment to us. Back then, we thought we were splurging to spend so much money for a Disney room. In 2009, we stayed at CBR as part of a family gathering. I think its a very pretty resort.

    I'm of the opinion that the new resort will not be "moderate" in any way. Instead, it will be just like any other DVC resort which happens to have a Disney moderate resort as its nearest neighbor. As I posted earlier, Disney could change the traffic patterns around the current Caribbean Beach Resort so that CBR and the new DVC resort will have separate entrances, the former off of Victory Way and the latter off of Lake Buena Vista Drive. Further, the separation between CBR and the DVC resort could be underscored by having distinctly different name for the new resort. I'll go on record right now that Disney won't name the new resort "Villas at Caribbean Beach." The new resort might still have a tropical theme but Disney could still make sure that the DVC resort is not marketed as part of CBR.

    It doesn't shock me to read that some people know nothing about CBR. But its actually in a very good location. Its close to Disney Springs, which is becoming a big draw. Even if no walkway is built between Epcot and the new resort, its still very close to Epcot. In fact, the DVC building should offer great views of the Epcot fireworks. I won't be surprised if the DVC building's villas facing Epcot are classified as Theme Park villas.

    Also, the new resort is in a good location for guests wanting to go to Disney's Hollywood Studios. DHS's new Star Wars Land and Toy Story Land should open by 2020, and this new resort should open around that time.
     
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  22. Granny

    Granny Elite Member

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    Lori...I think you are right about the popularity. If I'm not mistaken, CBR is also the largest of the Moderate resorts? So if it has occupancy issues (I have no idea), that seems to be a carrot to DVC planners to potentially continue to kill two birds (low occupancy issues, DVC new cash influx) with one stone like they have done at Wilderness Lodge.

    Russ...it will be interesting to see how Disney would handle this, but I agree that they won't go backwards on price per point but the point schedule itself might be lower. I don't see them making the villas themselves any lesser than existing DVC villas but they just might have a lower point schedule. I don't see a lower point schedule than SSR or OKW however.


    It makes for fun conjecture, and so many knowledgeable people here that have so much insight and information to share. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2017
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  23. AnnaS

    AnnaS Master Member

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    I don't think it matters how popular it is to us. I don't think many people are going to know the difference once it starts selling as a DVC resort. We know all/more about it. We can name all the resorts, if they are value, moderate, Deluxe, Villas, etc. etc. Restaurants, which park or resort they are in. People who have never been there, or have only been once here and there or stayed outside - doubt they will have much clue. I know someone who has worked for Disney for years (AK/full-time). One of the times we met him, we were trying to see where 8 of us could get in/reservation for dinner. I mentioned Olivia's and he never heard of it. These new buyers won't know/compare to what we have experienced either (points, sq. footage, location, etc.). It will be the new DVC resort they are currently selling and are/will be wowed by all things Disney :) - I am thinking anyway........just thinking out loud
     
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  24. Russ

    Russ Staff Member Site Owner

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    I think you may be on to something...
     
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  25. Russ

    Russ Staff Member Site Owner

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    Just remember AKV Value rooms are lower point structure than SSR or OKW (or BWV for that matter which is actually lower than OKW or SSR), and continue to be extremely popular (and one of the main selling points for owning at AKV).
     
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